Video: Ketosis, Saturated Fat, Cholesterol & Fat Loss w/ Ken Berry MD
hi everyone welcome back to the channel today I have a very very special guest I have dr. ken berry on I'm going to let him introduce himself and after he's on with that we can get started on some questions super super excited to have you on today so welcome to the channel hey thanks a lot for having me so I'm Ken berry I'm a board certified family physician I've been practicing family medicine for almost 13 14 years now and I've seen thousands of patients in that time obviously and I have a YouTube channel I have a Facebook page I have a book on Amazon called lies my doctor told me you guys are welcome to check all that stuff out with my current love that has been for about the last three years is using the ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting to help people lose amazing amounts of weight if they have weight to lose and then to optimize performance in other ways if you don't have the weight to lose awesome yeah definitely that the ketogenic diet and intamin fasting has become so popular over the last few years incredibly popular actually and all over the internet you can just see people's transformations losing over a hundred pounds sometimes so it's it's pretty amazing that that we have a tool like that available but with very popular methods of losing weight and dietary interventions which might be seen as a bit eccentric comes a lot of controversy and a lot of doubt about the safety of it and what exactly it is and just going against the grain of what we've thought for years and years and years so I want to focus today's video mainly on the ketogenic diet we're talking about fasting as well I guess but first how about you go on and define exactly what it is and then we can get into some questions about it so there are multiple definitions of the ketogenic diets the one that I have the best success rate with in my clinic with my patients is what some people might called lighten called lazy keto or unstructured keto I don't I don't believe in doing a lot of macro counting I don't believe in doing a lot of just you know busy work I believe in hitting the 90 percent eighty percent as the rule goes that's going to get you the most results and and so for my patients I've got I've got a little ketogenic guide book handout that I give them and we do questions and answers and it's basically 80ish percent fats 15 ish percent protein and five percent ish carbs and then if you can go lower on carbs comfortably I'm happy for you to do that because I feel like the lower the carb counts the lower your blood sugar stays therefore the lower your insulin level stays therefore the faster you burn the fat on your butt and on your belly and in your liver and pancreas if you happen to have some there and so what I really don't like to give people a lot of busy work and I also try to make my ketogenic diet as inexpensive as possible I don't think you need to buy any products and he pills any powders any potions I don't think any of that stuff is necessary to do the ketogenic diet properly where I practice medicine is a is a very low socioeconomic status community there's not a lot of money and so I tell people everyday you can do keto with hot dogs and mustard you don't have to have grass fed you know $18 an ounce beef from from the organic market that's not necessary now obviously ideally we'd like you eating organic and grass-fed and you know what I'm saying but that's not necessary because at this point in our history of Western society anything is better than the standard diet so even going a little bit ketogenic it's infinitely better than the standard fare that most people ingest every day right so do you think it's cutting the Cubs which is a really good thing or inducing a state of ketosis which is a good thing yeah that's a great question and I think a lot of people get hung up on this and therefore you have to keto sticks the urine sticks you have the the blood monitors you have the now the breathalyzer that checks your ketones and your in your breath I think that everybody's there getting caught up in the minutia and they're missing the point but and especially for if you're just trying to lose weight and correct your to diabetes and correct your insulin resistance perhaps prevent dementia perhaps treat depression and anxiety the entire point here is to keep your blood sugar as low normal as possible which therefore is going to keep your insulin level as low normal as possible because insulin is is insulin and glucose going up in hand-in-hand is basically the definition of chronic modern disease all the chronic diseases are based on that model and so yeah I think that having ketones in your blood I think that's important I think ketones it's been shown in several studies that they enhance performance and that they enhance lots of things and so I think that there is there a benefits to that but you may or may not know I don't really endorse or recommend any kind of exogenous ketones I don't think they're bad I don't think they're dangerous I just don't think they're necessary and especially with my patient population of people who don't have a lot of money to spend it's not necessary you just have to eat a ketogenic diet and obviously the root you know the definition of ketogenic is inducing ketosis or ketones but true there's a there's a bell curve for this right and if you're eating the standard American diet of the standard Western diet you're so far away from that that any move towards a ketogenic diet is a positive thing in my book and then once you get over the hump and you get down on the good side of the curve I think that the benefits almost become exponential right um a few questions that what do you think about MCT oil just as an example I think it I think MCT oil is wonderful I think if you can't afford that though I think coconut oil is fine and again I'll keep saying this over and over but I think it's very important to hear and to understand coconut oil is good enough if you can afford MCT oil and if you can afford the next step up then that's fine do that but coconut oil is good enough because that's way the hell better than you were doing before right saying the same goes for butter if you can afford grass-fed grass-finished butter that's fine get that because that's a little better though mega 3 right much better there's no doubt about that but if all you can afford is the cheap generic butter that's still infinitely better than margarine and canola oil so yeah you see my point I mean it's like yeah that's a that's a giant leap forward and then when you can step up to grasp it or when you can step up to MCT definitely do so but that's not necessary to do this dieting not because I see a lot of people who get discouraged because they can't afford the MCT or they can't afford the ketone meter or they can't afford it's like yeah you don't need that you don't need that at all to do this diet right so what do you think about calories calories in calories out because they're proponents of something called if it fits your macros which is basically you have a Sun macronutrient ratio you have a certain amount of calories to hit who do you think this is okay for do you think no one should be doing this at all and everybody should be going to a ketogenic diet what's your general opinion on that if it's well formulated I think the people who count macros now religiously are the same people who used to religiously count calories and they are the type of people that just need something to count there but you know that's that's the personality style and there's nothing wrong with that but I do absolutely think as I think your question hinted to that if you're too hung up on macros then you still perhaps subconsciously believe that calories matter and I just posted a video on the YouTube page a few days ago that I mean I'm as blunt as you can be calories are meaningless calories don't matter at all okay I'm very keen to get into that because that's super interesting so yeah let's say we used one of those calculators online surely they're not that accurate but you get and all your statistics as closely as possible high body fat percentage and let's say somebody needs 2200 calories to maintain their weight but you put them on a ketogenic diet and you put their calories above that does that mean that they're going to be gaining weight or not and why because that's a very kind of a debatable point that yeah it's meaningless it doesn't mean either way you we've been playing the calorie game for the last 60 years and it has never worked I don't believe that any of that matters I believe what matters is doing the diet and then if you're trying to build muscle working out those two things work everything else is either myth or minutia that's that's my opinion on that I've never because I used to count my used to be very slender and I used to eat a ridiculous calorie surplus every day and I did it for years and I didn't gain an ounce why would it be the case though well here's why the human body is much smarter than me and you the human body is much smarter than the average doctor the human body has been playing this game for eons of time okay there we've went through periods of Plenty and we've went through periods of famine when there was nothing and so your body is very adapt and increasing or decreasing your metabolic rate it's it's nothing for your body to increase or decrease your metabolic rate by up to 700 calories a day right and so that there are huge studies that show that proved without doubt that calories are meaningless the woman's Health Initiative in America is a huge study done over more than ten years of time and there was a 1/2 the women ate what they wanted half the other women calorie deficit every day 300 calories for a seven years and at the end of that time there was no difference in weight loss they both weighed the same literally after seven years of being a calorie deficit 300 calories every day for seven years they weighed I think it was half a kilogram less than the group who just eaten to satiety it's irrelevant it's meaningless when I was in medical school we studied cell and molecular biology and biochemistry and that's what your body uses your body does it is not a furnace it doesn't burn the food that you eat that's a that's a gross underestimate of the complexity of what happens in your body what happens is is but depending on which macro you ate it goes down a different biochemical pathway right if you eat fat it doesn't go down the same pathway as lettuce and that's why 100 calories of bacon is not the same as 100 calories of lettuce you can never make that argument in an intelligent fashion anymore the cats out of the bag so yeah the it's a the calorie deficit or the calorie surplus theory of weight gain and weight loss has been shut right between the eyes and is dying a much deserved death right so you're you're kind of in support of the idea that carbohydrates lead to increase in insulin and insulin is gonna be storing fat is that basically that's oversimplified obviously but simplify it greatly that's a good way to think of it there the the hormone that's in charge of burning fat or storing fat is insulin that's not up for debate that's proven that's been known for hundreds of years in the in medicine we know that and so if you have a ten-year-old type one diabetic they don't make any insulin at all right and you can feed that type one diabetic ten thousand calories a day and you know what they'll do they'll lose weight and they'll keep losing weight until they die without insulin no amount of calories means anything you have to have the weight gain hormone insulin or it is impossible to gain the weight and so the whole the whole premise of that the actual medical premise of the kid is genic diet is keeping your insulin level low normal all the time and then you burn the calories you burn the fat that's on your body and you don't burn the carbs that you would be eating otherwise right interesting that make sense and so there's really insulin insulin role in weight gain and weight loss a lot of people act like oh no it's the ketones or it's the know if your insulin level is high you are going to gain weight if you're eating eight hundred calories a day if you're a type one diabetic and you don't make any insulin and you're not taking exogenous insulin you can eat eight thousand calories a day and you'll keep losing weight that's it's in a nutshell that's black and white that's not open for debate that's known and that's just known science and so when you we've been so tricked by the calorie theory and the calorie myth that we ignore that insulin issue but when you think about it like that with with a fresh mind you're like oh yeah we know that we've known that for a hundred years that insulin makes you gain weight and so there are studies there was a study a few years back done where doctors thought well we're gonna try to have very tight control of type 2 diabetics blood Sugar's and we think that that'll keep them from having heart attacks and strokes and so we put all these type 2 diabetics on insulin injections right so that we can keep their blood sugar very very low but they had to stop the study because what was happening was the insulin was making these people gain weight even though they were eating a calorie deficit and so they were having heart attacks at a much higher rate because they were gaining weight so they had to stop the study for humane reasons this has been proven both ways it's not it's just it's medical science but we've been so blinded by this calorie bullcrap that we couldn't see the truth of the matter that was staring us in the face right um and would the kid agent kiddo genic diet comes the whole controversy about fat so saturated fat and cholesterol was always thought to be super super bad you know what causes heart disease and all of that um the evidence kind of shows otherwise today except for maybe certain people with genetic variations possibly um so I want to ask you what's the biggest kind of controversy about the kiddo genic diet you're criticized for you hear about and frustrates you a lot and well most people quickly disappear when they try to criticize me and then I kind of hammer them with the science they tend to they tend to scurry along right but the problem is is when a human being when when your entire life has been lived in a certain environment then to you that seems like forever and like you just said you know forever we thought that that saturated fat was bad for you actually that's not true we've only thought that as a society and a culture since the 1960 before that everyone knew like there are old cookbooks and old books about etiquette American books that you know like the older women will be telling the younger women if you want to lose weight you need to cut out the sugar and the star chips that's how you lose weight that's just common sense you want to get pregnant organ meats butter all of that it's exactly right if you want to be skinny and fertile you need to eat your fat that's it and that's been known for basically the entirety of human existence when we were able to pass on messages to each other but starting in the 60s and 70s a fellow named Ancel Keys which I'm sure you're familiar with this whole story he basically put out some research that was based on false premises and he but he basically faked the research that's what he did he cherry picked and he he published what he wanted to publish and he left the rest hidden and that slanted the the view in Western society about cholesterol in saturated fat and starting at that time is when we started thinking that saturated fat was actually bad for human beings for the entirety of human history before that everyone knew that saturated fat was the was good for human beings that was literally the first thing you would eat when you would make a kill ten thousand years ago you would eat the fattiest part of the animal first and you would say the the lane sinua meat for last or better you would just give that to the dogs hmm yeah definitely um but there are still so many experts out there saying the other thing I try to be very kind of objective on my channel when I'm interviewing people so I bring on people even like dr.
Michael Greger which I'm sure you've heard right and they are very very opposing views and it's not that I necessarily agree with that I'm just trying to get every perspective so the thing that does frustrate me though and I have to say is that many of these claims about saturated fat and cholesterol are just based on population studies and and it's just that simple idea that correlation does not equal causation exactly that's right just cuz the popular you know and that that's what that's the frustrating thing um and I be surprised how many doctors you'd be surprised at how many doctors don't understand what you just said yeah it takes a while for on to get that yeah it doesn't even imply causation much less prove it but for most doctors if you show them a causation study they're like there you go that proves it it's like no dude it doesn't prove anything at all and actually you can go back to a lot of the bigger causation studies or a correlation studies and and you can use their own data and crunch it and show that the people with the highest saturated fat intake actually live longer and the people with the highest cholesterol levels actually have better all calls morbidity and mortality numbers than two people with the lowest cholesterol and saturated fat intake so you can actually use their own numbers against them they just chose to crunch it in a way that seemed to show a correlation but in reality you can show the opposite correlation just as easily with their data yeah things get a bit muddled up as well when there's a moral agenda attached to it whether it be like a philosophy on veganism as well and I think that can get a bit a bit complicated now I've had a lot of criticism for that um yeah and cholesterol has also been shown to be correlated with less instances of certain cognitive disorders which I saw David Perlmutter which I'm sure you've heard about talk about yes absolutely and saturated fat monounsaturated fat these are the fats good for testosterone for example I mean we're not so fueling our entire body off of omega-6 causes you you you may or may not know but I'm sure some of your listeners don't know cholesterol is the parent molecule for all the sex hormones yeah that's what testosterone and all the rest of them they're made from cholesterol your brain and your your nerves are made of fat and cholesterol right so is it any wonder that when we started putting everyone on a cholesterol-lowering statin drug 20 years ago that the dementia epidemic took off I mean when you think about this from ketogenic paradigm you're like well duh of course that's what would happen yeah yeah I mean when you when you look at it and you just look at what happened in the 60s 70s when obesity really started to climb and then you just look at what was happening to people's nutritional choices it's kind of obvious you know carbs go up and then and I mean Cubs have actually gone down refined carbohydrates since 1999 I think I was reading Stephan Guin A's book um but you know sedentary lifestyles have also gone up so it's you know the thing in nutrition is it's never one thing it's such a complicated it exactly you can never pin it down to one thing but that definitely is not the problem um so how do you do a kid a genetic diet right because you can screw it up time I mean if you don't understand your electrolyte balance if you don't get enough salt that can cause a lot of problems so if somebody listening right now has been a bit apprehensive about selling but they want to start and do it right how would they go about that so yeah again I try to keep it very simple if you're a type 2 diabetic you can do the ketogenic diet if you're a type 1 diabetic then in concert with your doctor close consultation with your doctor you can still do the ketogenic diet if you have heart failure if you have definitely if you have fatty liver or high triglycerides you need to do the the ketogenic diet and so it's it's basically just a high-fat diet very very low carb and then I tell people just like the protein take care of itself because if you're eating enough fat you're gonna be getting enough protein unless you're some sort of elite level athlete then you might need to really worry a little more about your protein intake but that's that's it in a nutshell yeah a lot of times people when they switch from the standard Western diet to the ketogenic diet they don't realize that they have so much inflammation in their body and so when you switch to the ketogenic diet which is a very anti-inflammatory it lowers your inflammation markers almost immediately you start to pee off all the fluid to urinate away all the fluid that was held in the inflammatory tissues and with that with that liquid with that fluid goes a lot of salt and so for the first week or two or three you can feel kind of fatigued flu-like symptoms that sort of thing it's called the keto flu or the Atkins flu and it just means you're not eating enough salt and so basically the answer for almost everyone almost on a ketogenic diet who's having problems either they're not losing weight or they feel like crap it's to eat more fat and eat more salt and it's not that eating more fat is magic but when you eat more fat what the reason that helps is because you're you're triggering your satiety hormones and by definition you have to be eating fewer carbs if you're eating more fat because you just don't have room for more carbs so you stay you're you get full quicker and you stay full longer that feeling of fullness like I'm not hungry but then also if you're not hungry you're not eating any carbs at all and so that really is the answer and a lot of people you know it anytime there's a new theory like this everybody's taking off and running you know there's this whole group of people who are running with the exogenous ketones trying to make a million bucks and I understand that we try all try to make money but then at the same time there are people like oh the fats magic just eat pure fat but it's more complicated than that like you in it you know you alluded to earlier this is any human nutrition issue is infinitely complicated there are so many confounders and so many variables but but basically my I'm what I'm trying to do is hit the 80% and and you know from from stoicism and and other philosophies like that you've heard of the ID 20 you know very well what that means and so I'm trying to hit the 80% and and ignore the 20% because people love to get off in the eddies of the 20% and just chase their tail until they get frustrated and then quit and so I try not to even mention the 20% stuff let's just focus on the 80% and do that so eat lots of fat and use salt liberally and if you feel bad use more salt and if you're still hungry or you're not losing weight than eat more fast right and that solves virtually every problem because once you understand and I don't know if you've heard of dr.
the Mikkel Antonio he has a book called the salt fix amazing look I highly recommend it if you're still afraid to eat salt or you're afraid that salt will raise your blood pressure or give you a heart attack you need to get dr. Dee's book the salt if you're not eating it if you're not eating enough salt it causes way worse problems exactly right yeah and again when you crunch the numbers the people with the lowest sodium intake die sooner that's been shown in multiple multiple studies the people who eat the most salt and eat the most fat live longer and have less dementia and ablis heart attacks and stroke that's what all the research has been showing for the last 50 years if you just crunch the data right everything is kind of flip now salt isn't bad whew cholesterol is in badly saturated fat is bad for you so when people look at that in the hair that they think surely we didn't get everything wrong but for the last 50 years just about everything wrong and it hasn't been forever because again you that paradigm I've never heard this before so therefore it's never been said before that's very short-sighted what we got a look is look at before 1950 basically before 1950 nobody was afraid of salt before 1950 nobody was afraid of fat it just wasn't a thing if you just said oh you should need so much saturated fat back in the 30s or 40s they would have lapped you out of the room they're like what are you basing that on where's your research and so at any point someone with enough huevos could have stood up and said in the 70s or 80s where's your research show me the research that proves that and then I'm gonna crunch your numbers and make sure it's right this could have all went away twenty or thirty years ago but nobody had the wherewithal to stand up the challenging mmm it gets complicated when money's involved as well and there's a whole lot of money and religion fouls everything right yeah you can do all the religious fervor or like the vegans you know they they have a true religious fervor which I respect very much I mean it's very impressive the religious fervor that they have that allows them to ignore blatant facts and latch on to you know to correlations that that may or may not be true yeah definitely um that's an interesting topic one that we I could go on for four hours but we won't go into that today um let's let's talk about ketosis and keto adaptation because this is something that's often muddled up as well because when you wake up in the morning you can be in a slight state of ketosis but you can produce some ketones because that's basically your liver glycogen depleting but there's a big difference between being in a state of ketosis and being adapted to fat so what's the difference between those two I'm not so sure that I believe in a difference between those and here's why the reason when you wake up you're you're more likely to be in a state of ketosis because you fasted all night right and so you've depleted your glycogen so you're burning fat so I don't think that that that alone proves that really there's no real there's no real necessity for a keto adaptation you fasted overnight and you were in ketosis you didn't have to adapt you did it in eight hours you were so so you're saying it's just based on how many ketones you're producing so it's just like like ketosis deep ketosis is that sort of exactly right yeah the longer you fast the deeper into ketosis you get and then I think that eating fat perhaps in some way retrained your body but I think basically you're eating all the fat and it's keeping you full so you're just not eating the Karp's I think it's gonna be very interesting which way that plays out as to which one actually ultimately becomes the the proven fact of the matter is I don't think we know yet yeah obviously none of this has been researched in any meaningful way cuz it's brand it's it's very old but it's also brand new yeah yeah all zones of the impression that for example somebody who is been following the ketogenic diet for a week for the first time may be fueling their brain off I don't know 30% ketones and then after four weeks that increases up to 78 or 80 percent as your body becomes more efficient at using fat right and that's a theory right and disagree with that I think there may be some truth to that but it also wouldn't surprise me if there's no truth to that at all because what about that person that that slept for 12 hours I mean they're they've depleted their glycogen I said I mean they should just die because their brain has no energy they should just have a stroke and die right no no they don't do that they just immediately convert to ketosis and they burn the fat on their booty to power their brain or otherwise they would be you know they'd be retarded when they woke up they would have had a mini something bad would have happened to their brain but it didn't happen right what about people that you know someone slipped them of a sleeping pill the rohypnol or something and they sleep for three days they should be brain damaged when they wake up because they haven't had time to keto adapt yet they've had to they've had no sugar intake for for three days and you know their glycogen depleted so what happened there how did they not wake up brain damaged so that's then so I'm not trying to argue with the other side of this issue I'm just saying we all need to not let's not let's not build our castles too quickly let's not say this is why because you get in ketosis and you're you're ketones are point eight and that's what counts or you know the more the way I believe no I think that's irrelevant I think actually what's going on as your insulin levels very very low let's not be enemies about this let's say well maybe you're right maybe I'm right but let's start doing some meaningful research and in the in the meantime let's keep helping all the thousands and thousands of people who are getting their life back by doing the ketogenic diet as it stands undefined we don't have to define it as long as it's working and people are literally having life-changing improvements with this diet let's not start arguing among ourselves because all that's gonna do is slow down the good benefits that we can help other people attain yeah I agree but I think that once once something is working in the Roza results are pretty like profound researchers get interested in it and once reaches that researchers get interested in it and it's a complicated topic then it gets all over the place it does you're exactly right but there's no reason why in the true fashion that scientists are supposed to do things and the example given to us by the last 50 years that's how you don't do it you don't you don't do it with threats and when I'll ruin your career and you're an idiot that's not how you do this you do this with collegiality and you you you collaborate you don't you don't try to wall off and say I'm right and you're wrong and you can go to hell that's not how you do this and that's that all that's gonna do is slow down the benefits that just a random guy on the street yeah exactly it's not about being right it's about that person who needs the results right that's exactly right that guy who's on the verge of having a stroke doesn't have to have a stroke that guy who's type 2 diabetic and is about to lose a foot who doesn't have to lose that foot that's what this is about hmm um last thing I want to talk about is gonna be athletic performance because not that many of my viewers a really big or type-2 diabetic a lot of them are lifting weights a lot and really really active and one concern is that carbohydrates are super important for performance especially an aerobic performance lifting weights and high-intensity interval training and I think that's true to some extent so what would you say to somebody who's very physically active there sport yep lifting weights is important to them and they've seen in their own life when they go into a state of ketosis their performance goes way down what's the solution and so you'd that that there may be something to that there may not there may be a genetic predisposition to need carbs for high performance and someone else might not need high carbs I don't know yet but I do know that more and more elite level athletes are using ketosis for and actually breaking the records there are elite level athletes who are using intermittent fasting and are doing their heaviest workout while they're fasting because basically that bumps their testosterone and their HGH up to the point where it makes carbs look silly it's like oh would you rather have you were gonna be carb loaded or would you rather be testosterone and HGH loaded I don't know I think I'd probably prefer the latter but I don't know if you've heard of dr.
Sean Baker he's North feeding surgeon he's on the Joe Rogan mantra yeah yeah he's getting carnivore actually chit-chatted back and forth on Twitter he's eating nothing but meat which by definition is zero carbs four years three years four years and he's 50 now and he looks 40 and he competes at the 30 35 year-old level and he hasn't been his obviously hasn't carb-loading cuz he hasn't eaten a damn carb in three years so how it first of all how's he even able to get out of bed in the morning because he's not carb loading to exert himself to get out of bed secondly how is he able to actually he's beaten all of his old records by being a carnivore eating zero carbs and so that sort of thing maybe there's a genetic variability there some people who can't do that I don't know but I think it's very sexy to think that the human organism is so complex that maybe there's different ways of being your best self but if we don't need to we don't need to make fun of dr. Baker we need to learn from him but we also don't need to make fun of the guy that eats a huge plate of spaghetti before he goes to his athletic event because maybe he knows something that we don't know about his particular genetic subtype and so I think that this is a really amazing time to be alive and to be this arena and to see what's happening with human nutrition and human performance because if you had said five years ago or ten years ago how you know you can eat nothing but meat it'd break all your old records you'd have been laughed out of the room but now there are people and he's actually got a kind of a unofficial study going with thousands of people who have loading something to that I don't know yet what it is yeah I think the biggest thing about the human body is that it can adapt right I can adapt over time to anything you you you give it I mean it's just like some sort of natural disaster that would happen in the in the wilderness you know your body wouldn't just die would it would start to adapt to that circumstance and I find personally as well training fasted at the gym so much better I like to come yeah I like to kind of compare it to back in I don't know cavemen days where you're going out you're hunting you don't have any food and your body's forcing you to perform the best so you're able to get food so I think of like hunting perfect thinking about this yeah and ask the carb loader so let's go back in time thirty thousand years right yeah and you're in the cave and you haven't eaten in three days and so it's you know it's getting tight I mean you've got to you've got to get with it you've got to be successful and so your body but yet you haven't carb loaded so you're gonna have no energy you're just gonna have to lay in the cave because you have you have a carbon coma yeah what that's ridiculous no if anything the human body like I said is smarter than the average doctor the human body is gonna get better the hungrier you get the better you're gonna perform and I think I think I hungry I mean low carb intake I think that's what that means yeah it's really interesting I like going back in giving the evolutionary perspective on them because I think that will give us a lot of insight into it flies in absolutely absolutely right yeah um okay I think well I think we'll wrap it up there but this has been really interesting again tell everybody about your channel your book and where they can find you and definitely go and check out Ken's content it's really good so I do most of my work on YouTube and on Facebook I have a Facebook page that can be buried dot and my youtube channel is can be Barry MD with no dots and then I also have a book on Amazon both in paperback and Kindle called wise my doctor told me medical myths that can harm your health and one of the lies obviously is that cholesterol is bad for you another lie is that you need lots of servings of whole wheat there's all these nutritional lies that doctors have told patients for decades that are baked backed up by no science whatsoever and so you know it's a doctor's job to kind of be an expert in the care and function of the human body and if you don't even know what the feeding human but yet you're giving advice then in my book that's a big fat lie and so that's why I wrote the book called lies my doctor told me because if you don't know what you're talking about you need to shut up but but and so if you want to know what you're talking about you need to be actually been reading the research not just reading the summary or the conclusion of this paper or taking the expert opinion because that's what all the nutrition stuff has been based on for the last 60 years is expert opinion that's not science okay that's just some dudes opinion who happens to currently be in charge of something that doesn't make him any more rights than your hairdresser if she told you something so yeah why's my doctor told me that's the book you know I've got a couple other books in the wart worker that works right now that'll that'll hopefully be out in a few months awesome good stuff sorry this is just a supply that keeps ya know it's been great to have you on the channel hopefully we can do this again sometime when this fly absolutely yeah sounds yeah any time man I love talking about this stuff can you tell yeah yeah it's definitely me too you.